Ten Crowns
Bint has an interesting entry up on Christianity and whether or not it can be reconciled with feminism.
I spent a good chunk of my life watching the church going types around me try to fit with the actual contents of the Bible to what they were willing to do.
There’s the “selective hearing Biblical literalism” folks, where you pick and choose just what God was serious about in the Bible, and what probably doesn’t really count. So, shellfish is in, and gay is out. Submissive wives are in, and stoning your kids is out. Etc.
Likewise, there’s the “feel good” version, where all you have to do is “accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Saviour.” The rest is, I suppose, just details. That one works particularly well for any denomination that popped up out of Calvinism, because at root, they’ve all got it in their heads that if you’re going to Heaven, you were sort of marked from birth, and the rest of the plebes are just screwed.
There are the “Works, not Faith” people, that figure, “Hey! I’m a good person, and that’s all Jesus meant!!” (Which, if you’ve actually read the New Testament, isn’t exactly true, folks. It’s just not.)
And, the “Dutiful” types that figure all they have to do is show up on Sundays. Actually, in a way, these are my favorite. They’re usually there for “the children.” So, the kids can “learn morals.” I have a friend from high school that recently took her son to Sunday service for the first time, where he proudly announced that “Momma doesn’t even own a Bible!” to quite a bit of the congregation. My sister hinted at taking that route with my nephew, though she hasn’t acted on it, yet. There are a lot of communities out there where being in Youth Group is the end-all, be-all of social markers—if you’re not doing the Christian thing, then you’re not going to matter in the High School social hierarchy. My brother actually is one of these guys, though he’s single. He goes ‘cause he feels like he “should.” Why does he feel like he “should?” I suppose that some might say he’s being “called.” His older sister, however, would say, “He’s in Texas, and he blatantly states that his big goal in life is to make a lot of money some day.”
People jump through hoops for all sorts of things.
So, how to reconcile feminism with Christianity?
I know that some people say you can’t be feminist and be Christian. Church is politicized here in the U.S., and feminism doesn’t fit into most Pastors personal pretzel of theology. People look to the Bible saying, “Tell me how to live.” And, it tells them about Paul’s Chain of Command. God, Jesus, dudes, women, children, then donkeys. Or, maybe it’s donkeys, then children. Something along those lines. So, no… if you’re going to a “Bible Based” church, they’re not gonna take too kindly.
Congregations aside, though, the question honestly shouldn’t specifically be about feminism. Christianity isn’t about equality. Or, freedom. Or, any of our favorite Enlightenment ideas—which is why so many of those 18th century thinkers weren’t Christian. Imitating Christ is about submission of will. It’s about faith over reason, contentment in God’s light over yearning for the things of the earth. Jesus does not call people to self-determination. I mean, you’re talking about a dude that comes along and tells people that the king they’ve spent hundreds of years waiting for, the one that they feel they’ve been specifically promised by God, the guy that is supposed to politically free them from domination by other empires (Rome, at that time) wasn’t going to show up. Ever. That they’d gotten a spiritual King, instead. The second exodus, in the Christian scheme of things, was an exodus of the soul.
Jesus as Messiah is King to the Kingdom that isn’t. And, that’s sort of the point—forget the pains of mortality and keep your eyes on God. And, always on God. So, the question isn’t “Can you be a Christian feminist?” The question is more like, “Does it matter to God, whether or not we are free on Earth?” Because, the theology really indicates that it doesn’t. That somewhere along the line, God decided that there is holiness in slavery, submission, and degradation. That both the oppressors and the oppressed have access to salvation, eternal life, etc.
The way the story goes—we’re already as free as we need to be, no matter the circumstances of our earth-bound existence. Which is both comforting or tremendously insulting, depending on how you look at it. So, do you think that it’s a comfort? Or, do you think it’s a load of crap?
‘Cause the answer to that question oughta show you if Christianity is something you can reconcile with your personal politics honestly, or not.
tags: jesus and friends





Crap. But I didn’t believe even back when I liked going to church ‘cause I got to wear robes and sing in the choir. Sunday School, where they actually tried to instill faith in me, was not nearly so much fun. For someone who has found comfort and safety in faith, it’s a harder question to answer. My wife has drifted farther and farther away from church and religion, though still considers herself a Christian, mostly (I think) wanting to believe that there’s an afterlife, and more to the point, a heaven.
— Moira Jun 19, 02:27 PM #
Hee. I feel like I'm two steps short of nihilism when pressed.
“We believe in NOTHING, Lebowski…”
— Veronica Jun 19, 03:19 PM #
So, do you think that it’s a comfort? Or, do you think it’s a load of crap?
It sort of used to be comforting, in an I’m ignorant about what my religion really posits kind of way, but I don’t think I could ever find any sort of understanding that corresponds to my actual belief system in Christianity as laid out in the New Testament. There’s some good philosophy true, but there’s also a lot of sophistry, and way too much out-and-out bigotry for me to subscribe to it whole-heartedly.
I don’t like the people who think the Bible actually teaches morals. I guess I’m nihilistic here in that I don’t believe true morals that exist outside of humanity can possibly exist, we can just approximate it using ethics and reason to achieve an understanding about what is going to good for the most number of people, while bearing in mind our own fallacies.
I think, all-in-all, I’m a fan of Camus’ version of existentialism. Life is absurd, and things are considered moral simply because they have been around long enough so as to be second nature for a lot of people, but the fact that something is considered moral is not a determining factor in the validity of its morality. Ethical reasoning is needed to help us come to some form of understanding that does not degrade or harm other people, yet brings about a situation of acceptance and mutual benevolence, if that’s even the correct phrasing. But we will never rid life of the absurd, nor will the world itself stop being indifferent, so we do the best we can.
And yeah, long ass comment that basically just says: no. Heh.
— JackGoff Jun 19, 05:50 PM #
I don’t even know about instilling a moral compass via the Church. So far as I can tell, Assholes are Everywhere, and the church is certainly no exception. Going to church certainly doesn't prevent a person from being an asshole.
Which is to say, that, yeah, I think morality is conditional, and not given from On High. I stand firm in the conviction that Assholery is the Root of All Evil, and that one man's Assholery is probably another's Righteousness. So, yeah... humanity is a great big, glorious mess.
— Veronica Jun 19, 08:44 PM #
Brilliant post. I’ve been trying to figure out Christianity/Feminism in my mind for yonks now…still trying to, but so far…I don’t think I can equate the two together.
— Amy Jun 20, 11:53 AM #
Yeah, they don’t equate. Or, at least, you have to really tie it into knots to make it all fit.
— Veronica Jun 20, 01:36 PM #
So, if assholery is the fount of evil, can opposition to assholes be the source of good?
— CGHill Jun 23, 09:01 AM #
I suppose it can be. Doesn’t necessarily mean that it always is.
— Veronica Jun 23, 01:21 PM #
The thing about Christianity is not that it’s a religion, but that it’s a relationship between the person and God, based on the belief in Jesus Christ and what-all He did to repair our relationship with God. Just like any human-human relationship, it fluctuates, and each dynamic is unique to that person and God. All the religion stuff, where you have to do X or say Y is a man-made construct. Some folks need rigid boundaries like that, others chap under them. Genuine faith in God has nothing to do with ‘religion’, except for the structure religion provides.
— rootietoot Jun 27, 01:54 PM #